Open Enlightenment

What’s in those boxes behind you?

Just kidding.

Seriously, I’d ask you this:

Please explain if you can what it was like one minute before your awakening and one minute after. Please describe any differences in how you perceived your self, your surroundings, and any differences you perceived in your thoughts. Please also describe the one most critical thing that is different for you after your awakening. And finally, what is it that you believe happened in that one tiny fraction of “time” as you awakened?

With respect,

- Chris

Alan, I have another question, too, but I don’t want to monopolize this new thing you’ve created. So, assuming you have time and it doesn’t interfere with another person’s question (I do believe you’ll get many questions):

What is the difference between being able to recognize non-dual awareness when one intends to do so, and final awakening, that full on sense of being “done?”

Again, thank you.

- Chris

No worries Chris, keep them coming! I imagine that many questions will be duplicated, so maybe I can answer a few with the same response.

I think answering all those questions you mentioned in the video would be a good start. If I think of any more I’ll post it here.

Have you taken any drugs, before or after. If so, if it’s the same drug, detail both if you can.

If you’re not comfortable answering that question, then don’t.

Also, how does the flow effect your decision making? Do you still ‘listen to’ your rational mind and make decisions, despite everything being wrapped up within the flow?

What are the negative aspects of it?

What’s the difference between the cycles, before and after? Has any new meditative territory opened up?

What are you experiences with the psychic powers? And have you reality tested their assumptions?

What’s different about interacting with daily life? Share some tips/tricks?

What’s the difference between a complete and partial awakenings?

Do you still get unitive effects ala Arising and Passing away or is everything always unitive? Or is it a different sort of unity, in the sense that content can be unitive, but sensations themselves don’t contain a self (not sure if that really makes sense).

How open have you been with having achieved enlightenment? What are other people’s reactions?

Can I assume that after awakening one still has work to do? That is, one doesn’t awaken and then say, “Ah, finally, no more need to meditate, I’m finished now.”? More specifically, what magickal, philosophical, intuitive, etc. subjects or skills do you find you continue to work on, and which do you find no longer necessary to work on? Should I assume this may be quite different for each individual?

Thanks for the excellent essays, books, forums, etc. They are very useful.

Alan,
Do you experience enlightenment as an ongoing process that may involve further experiences and fresh insights?

We often express enlightenment in cognitive terms. Is there an enlightenment of the heart? A more open, warm, compassionate engagement in our life?

Thank you. I have enjoyed keeping up with the posts on this site ever since hearing you on the Buddhist Geeks podcast.

Gensho

Alan, I’d like to double-down on Chris’ questions.

~Jackson

“All of Buddhist practice and doctrine is directed towards the eventual liberation from the cycle of samsara – the only difference is the level of depth of practice (i.e. lay followers are much further behind than the Sanga). To practice Buddhism alongside the lay life in order to live a better life in the now is myoptic at the least, ignorant at the most – it is a lesser developed path than those who practice in order to be liberated in this lifetime or work towards a meritorious rebirth for themselves in order to be closer on the pathway to nibbana next time around.”

Would you say these statements are right, or not?
(These are my words by the way, I’m just trying to get some clarification.)

Also tying in with that is a sort of vague related question of how can one experience awakening if they live the lay life, completely immersed and saturated in the indulgent sensory experiences of modern living?

Also, apologies if my questions are angled from the Buddhist perspective, as that is the paradigm I’m currently exploring and wrestling with.

Ingram says that the englightenment cycle can’t be stopped after the first A&P – and it never ends. I don’t quite understand that. It sounded to me that, after you hit Ipsissimus, you aren’t into emptiness 24/7, but you experience constant A&P, abysses and fruitions, cycling faster and faster, with or without meditation. Thus the whole “fractal” reasoning. How it is to you – isn’t a fruition desorienting? Can you just keep quietly feeling the emptiness, or every fruition punches a hole through space and time perception?

Also – based on Ingram’s MCTB, and this fractal reasoning – it seems to me that, even if the first fruitions deeply unfold the dual perception of you/the world, to a point we can say that englightenment happens and is permanent, there remains a lot of smaller folded/dual proccesses in your mind/body – and that every new cycle unfolds another dual proccess into non-duality, and thus there isn’t “complete englightenment”, but just deeper and deeper and more subtle cycles of englightenment, dealing with more subtle dual processes every time. What do you think/feel about this stuff? How it is for you?

Alan~~where were you when this awakening took place?
I see PP is sort of asking my next Q. Alan, was this a gradual process or more instantaneous and do you feel that you ever slip in or out of this awakened state?

Many traditions have many different kinds of practices intended to cultivate developmental enlightenment. What do you believe it is about these practices that actually brings enlightenment about? i.e., what is the real “wheat” that these practices tap into, as opposed to the superfluous “chaff” that gives one no traction towards developing enlightenment? Do the effective practices share one common mechanism or are there multiple, independent mechanisms that will nonetheless get the same job done?

I’d like to third Chris’s questions, really. I’d be particularly interested in a precise phenomenological description of the manner in which experience arises, and a description (if possible), a phenomological description of the same at each stage of the process eg: What you considered to constitute object, and what constituted subject, &c. If that’s at all possible. So, Ideally, it’d be good to see descriptions from regular plain old joe, through 1st path to 4th.

Cheers,

I usually think of my self as the one being in control, so I was wondering, this new self, the Self, does control go over to it or was it always in control or neither? Who gives a response to this question, the self or the Self?

At http://openenlightenment.org/?p=114 , you say:
“Since my enlightenment I know that I am not this person, Alan Chapman. But Alan Chapman persists after enlightenment just as he did before (much to everyone’s delight, I’m sure). Enlightenment occurred for me, and it was a radical transformation in identity, from subject to Non-dual experience.”

You seam to be speaking as the Non-dual here, or?

Also, if I understand it correctly, enlightenment is about moving identity from the person, the self, to the The One, the Self. Who moves the identity? Cause it seams from my experience right now that the person is doing the meditation, did the person tell the Godhead it’s identity?

And you can skip this one if it’s too complex/simple, what is the Godhead/Non-dual? Seams kind of megalomaniac to proclaim “I am the Godhead”, but it of course depends completely on what one means by Godhead, there is the folk theory of enlightenment and then there is?

And finally, do my questions show any major misunderstanding?

Thanks everyone for the questions so far.

Some of the questions here are quite complex and numerous, so what I’m going to try to do is to reduce the queries down into a number of core questions, the answers to which should answer many of the follow on questions above.

Thanks!

Thanks, Alan! I’m eager to see your answers. (:

How has your awakening changed your view of the practice of magick, both for you, personally, and for others?

please describe your actual moment of the self falling away, that is, when the compulsive narration of ‘I’ finally died. was this your enlightenment, or a stage attained before the event itself? is it like death? was there fear? excitement? did excitement drive the experience away, like trying to catch something out of the corner of your eye, or did it not interfere at all with realisation?
what was the physical sensation associated with the moment of “it is done”? what was your emotion? was there any fear of back-sliding? was the moment of awakening like the moment of ‘awakening’ in lucid dreams?

Great idea Alan! We’re getting used to synchronicities, but I was watching Francis Lucille’s answering questions about enlightenment on YouTube the night before you last blog entry, thinking: “Alan should do the same thing”.

I won’t add questions here since mine have either been answered (like “what is in these boxes?” – lol) or asked by friends like Chris or Jackson.

For those who can’t wait (and missed it), I can mention that you have already described the circumstances of your awakening on YouTube:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cziYLJwTGy8

This is probably a bit base and tabloid, but everyone else here is asking such great questions. (I sincerely hope you can answer them all in a way that the unenlightened can understand, as many explanations from awakened teachers can be frustrating to those not in the know!).

Can you spot other enlightened people straight away? Like members of the same club or something? Is it immediately obvious?

I imagine you’ve trawled through all the stuff online to corroborate your own experience, so can you name and shame the fakers? Go on…

And I wholeheartedly second Chris’ question about magick. It’s confusing enough territory as it is, but is it still valid in your life? Or is it now just a discarded vehicle?

Looking forward to your mega-reply to all these questions.

Oooh, I like MM’s question: “Can you spot other enlightened people straight away?”

Seriously, do you get a certain vibe, or are your powers of perception such that you just know?

i’d be happy to hear your thoughts on any of the following subjects.

1) cause & effect
2) free will
3) time
4) what exactly is ‘gone’ after enlightenment

thank you!

Did you have temporary experiences pre-enlightenment that, in retrospect, were qualitatively similar to what experience is like after enlightenment?

If so, what are these pre-enlightenment experiences that resemble enlightenment, and could they be a useful model for pre-enlightenment practitioners to understand what enlightenment is like?

If not, what is unique about experience post-enlightenment that is unlike anything experienced pre-enlightenment?

Do you still experience reactive emotions (containing a grasping quality) and if so, have they changed at all prior to your enlightenment experience?

Do you experience increased compassion (especially for other suffering beings) or is this not a particularly strong feature of your experience? (I’m especially curious whether the culmination of the introverted practices of Theravada Buddhism naturally lead into Mahayana-type compassion and other-focused activities, or if this is particular to the history of Buddhism.)

And most importantly…

How many enlightened beings does it take to change a light bulb?

Waht do you think about “doing it vs. getting it done”?
How important / helpful / hindering was your attitude towards the process and your practice for getting it done?
And if you value a good attitude, what view would you recommend to a beginner / MT / magus? Or is Right View something individual like integrity?

in the moment of enlightenment…there will be no question…perfectly clear every moment of every day…

could you imagine your buddha…standing on a street corner handing out flyers on enlightenment…or inviting you to visit his blog or youtube if you have questions about enlightenment…:)

it’s not something that you read the transforms you or enlightens you…no answer to a question is going to enlighten you…this is just silliness…trying to finagle this and prop this and up and this view and that view…no matter how important you think it all is…it is just a silly mind game you are playing with yourSelf…no matter how many discourses or discussions about enlightenment you will not find it…until you refrain from your learned concepts and just be…in this moment enlightenment will shine…through all the collected dust of the mind…questions and answers…nothing but dust filling the mind…allow enlightenment to shine…

@Jaya: Please read the free ebook. If you disagree with it or find its position untenable, this is not the place for you. There are plenty of sites/forums for you to indulge your pathological and repressive view of awakening.

If you continue to try and sabotage the conversation happening here, you will be banned. Peace.

Hi Alan,

Actually, it would be good to hear you explain (once again, yes…) the benefits of working hard to perceive fundamental, universal characteristics of reality over the notion that these characteristics are there regardless, and therefore nothing need be done about them?

Not as a specific refutation of Jaya Shiva’s posts, but as an encouragement to those of us who actually wish to get this thing done instead of indulging in the fantasy that there’s nothing to be done / it’s already done.

Cheers,
Florian

Hello everyone,

Again, thanks for the questions!

I just wanted to let everyone know that if you’ve asked a question it will get answered – I’ll give you a name check in the video response – but as I’ve had so many some will get answered sooner than others. If you haven’t heard a response over the coming weeks please be patient; it is coming!

Best,

Alan.

@Florian: I’ve added it to the list…;)

could you interpret the six vajra verses?

oh my oh me…i thought open enlightenment was about…expressing openly…ones own perspective…but insead it seems an exercise in stroking one another with agreement…the we veiw…is wee indeed and it seems to be growing smaller with each day…so you think you know and in that my friend you are concluded…the moment one no longer allows another’s perspective is the moment one become a petty tryant…open enlightenment you say…more like alan’s agree with me we view…or you will get kicked out of the sandbox…the ego is challanged so you alan…resort to petty name calling and threats…this reveals a great deal about you…

@happyseaurchim…ah yes how very appropriate:) the cuckoo’s song…everythings is as it should be…and when one let’s go of the concepts belief’s ideas and notions of how one thinks things should be…the what is comes into being…and one see’s with clarity the perfection within the imperfection…

alan i suppose i will be getting ousted from the club… just a closing note if so…you might ask yourSelf what it is that is arising in you…that would prompt you to react with name calling and threats instead of responding to what is appearing in the mirror of your own reflection…the teacher and the student are the teaching…if you think you have it…you certainly don’t…if you think you can find it…you certainly won’t…there is no disharmony here…the only disharmony is the disharmony that you create in your own Consciousness…open is allowing is the cuckoo’s song:)
enlightenment is when mindbodyspirt are no longer being informed by the ego…unasleep:)

have fun in the sandbox…
jaya shiva

Big Billy Goat Gruff has informed us that this is the last we’ll be hearing from this particular troll.

Duncan~~jaya shiva is simply expressing from his perspective. I wouldn’t be so quick to label him (i am assuming he is a him) as a troll. He is obviously willing to engage in conversation and doesn’t just make some comment and exist the stage : )

Whenever I encounter a view that is perhaps radically different than mine, I try to understand and accept the fact that my own perspective is subjective and also subject to change as well as the person I am speaking with.

It’s like a flower opening gradually~ the petals unfold with no resistance. There is no reason to become defensive or engage in argument. It’s surrender to what is, in the moment. jaya shiva has a different perspective relative to his experience. I have told Alan about my own experience with awakening. It is probably different than his.

Do whatever you want to Duncan, but one thing I have learned in life is the more open and receptive I am to diversity, the more expansive and happier I feel. Peace ♥

You guys~~~don’t be so quick to close off the flow of conversation.

It’s your own loss if you do this. conversation is like a huge tree that has many branches. If you sever one branch it affects all the other branches.

It’s fear that drives the need to sever the branch. there is no need to be threatened here.

Oh dear. Big Billy Goat Gruff is on a roll!

He’s not easily threatened, but just gets tired of people pointlessly and endlessly dicking around when there’s a more interesting discussion to be had.

More questions for Alan, anyone?

I think Jaya’s error is the floating cloud of vague blissed out prose he emanates which seems to say there is nothing to be done. There IS something to be done, that’s the point, or we all would be free, and KNOW that we are free. This is clearly NOT the case, except in the overview of the profound while you think it but useless for actually changing anything insight of ‘we’re all free man, we just don’t know it’. A nice thought, but nothing gets done.
Although there is nothing ‘incorrect’ in what Jaya is saying, it represents the contrary viewpoint to this site’s avowed ‘down to earth, getting shit done, put in all your effort as a small isolated ego into ending your separative delusion and you will have this result like i have’ purpose.
That is, I THINK…

Can i use a magick vow to facilitate awakening? Are the means of manifestation already within me, or does it have to grow, evolve, be developed?

Does my body/mind system have to restructure itself first to be able to ‘hold’ awakening?

(Jaya is correct in the sense that one has to surrender after a certain point and give up all sense of straining to get ‘over there’ to fully realise one’s self, but this surrender is only truly possible once a certain launch momentum has been built up via the brain-strain of practice.
It is the self-evident view from the top
that one had nothing to do, but it is not the view from the shadow-shrouded valley.)

I felt that the torrent of newage was very disrespectful, showing that the author hadn’t actually studied the site properly and had blithely assumed guru status over the rest of us, including Alan. Dear me, eh?

I have no specific questions but I look forward to the answers

“Do whatever you want to Duncan, but one thing I have learned in life is the more open and receptive I am to diversity, the more expansive and happier I feel.”

Okay, I have to comment on this ongoing cry for Alan and Duncan to be tolerant of what looks to me like nonsense. Sometimes people are just plain wrong. There is a need for tolerance, of course, but the need and the place are situational. Just plain silly ideas, rambling new age nonsense and meaningless babble do not deserve our tolerance. All ideas are not equally valid. There is tolerance for diversity and then there is mush headedness. And yes, this applies to the dharma, too.

contradiction and paradox will forever titilate the mind, while consciousness continues to evolve without reason.

in my experience, it is not only practice that drives one to the edge of the abyss, it’s life circumstance, loss, thinking that you are defined by what you think ….

when you fall through that crack where sense cannot save you, and you find your world view expanding beyond reason, incorporating without seperating, including without feeling the need to detach …

i have found the surrender to what i can no longer understand on a mental level, quite liberating ….

as i move daily through this evercreating world, ever enlightening it with this hard to describe living understanding, that defies the limits of cerebral, i am liberated to an expansion the mind can only serve an awareness, that i fold to in a devotion served momentarily in each blink of my ever opening eye . .

jiddu krishnamurti puts it very well when he says “Intellect cannot lead you out of this present chaos, confusion and suffering. Reason must exhaust itself, not by retreating, but through integral comprehension and love of life. When reason no longer has the capacity to protect you, through explanations, escapes, logical conclusions, then when there is complete vulnerability, utter nakedness of your whole being, there is the flame of love.”

We are living expressions of a single consciousness, what would there be to be intolerant of, other than that which we fear will leave us without a shield in a world, where definition is a life jacket.

Sure, i don’t tolerate racism … but is that an aspect of my personality, or an aspect of this expression i refer to above?

…. and in the down to earthness of how we relate …. how would one define ‘new age’, when really upon more determined inspection, it is really self existing knowledge …..

i know i have refered to ‘new age’ with much disdain, when i thought i had risen above it through my practice …… only to find, that that disdain was just my own feeling of inadequacy expressing itself as arrogance.

there is nothing that we cannot under/stand, unless of course, we don’t want to.

“i have found the surrender to what i can no longer understand on a mental level, quite liberating …”

“there is nothing that we cannot under/stand, unless of course, we don’t want to.”

Alan, this is my next question for you — does being awakened or enlightened require us to check reason at the entranceway?

@lila: [sigh] So have you got a question for Alan then, or not?

Here’s an easy question for Alan: Looking back on your entire practice that led to enlightenment, (from when you knowingly began working on becoming enlightened, to when you were knowingly enlightened) what was the single most important factor in that process? Was it the HGA work? Was is an aspect of insight meditation? Was it because of an iconoclastic approach to various models and traditions from history? Was it your favorite brand of toothpaste?
Us wee Babes could always use an aphorism or two to help us along the path!
Much respect,
G.

Yeah, all of the above… And also what you mentioned in the video – what’s it like going to work as an enlightened person? What’s it like for your wife being married to one? Generally, how is enlightenment and still having to live in the world working for you?

And similarly to Gabriel’s Q: You’ve written before on the paradox of how there is no path to enlightenment but that almost everyone who ‘gets there’ has devoted a serious chunk of energy and time to some sort of intensive practice. At this distance from the event, do you have any new perspectives on methodologies? Any suspicions that certain paths might be more efficacious for certain personality types / star signs / ethnic groups?

(sorry for multiple questions)….

Given that the creative urge is largely based on an emotional need for peer recognition and the urge to ‘express one’s self’ within society, is Art possible after enlightenment, given that there is no longer any self that needs to be expressed? Does the urge to be ‘creative’ whither away?

From your reference in Advanced Magic For Beginners, who (as in, what is their nature) are the Secret Chiefs, and is this work part of that agenda? (I’m guessing you didn’t mean the band.)

And yeah okay the obvious one….
What do I have to do to get enlightened?
(I know; attention, physicality, inclusion, repeat.)

Come on, then, Alan! Where’s the bloody video!? Are you waiting for Ridley Scott to direct it? There’s people waiting to get enlightened out here!

Stanley Kubrick. If this isn’t a Kubrick video then nothing is.

How has the experience of final Enlightenment changed your perspective on “The Octopus”?

How does the Aleister Crowley’s concept of True Will look like from the point of view of enlightenment?

Alan, you’ve described ‘crossing the abyss’ as the occurrence of the Absolute for the first time (and, I gather, this corresponds to ‘stream entry’), then drecribed an intermediate stage where this experience of the Absolute occurs as a ‘plateau’, and finally you describe the completion of the Great Work (corresponding to Enlightenment) as the experience of the Absolute as a permanent adaptation.

Would you now alter this description in any way?

Thanks for your questions everyone!

Yes, I’m aware I’ve been a bit slow getting this first video up, but following videos will be posted much faster. Soon you’ll be begging me to stop to making them…;)

Hi Alan, thanks for your blog and your video!

Does your experience of enlightenment confirm the paradigm of “no more becoming”? If so (or even if not!), I would love to hear your take on becoming.

Alan, im interested to hear how friends and your partner responded to the news/changes? Ive told some of my friends of the awakening experience ive had 6 weeks ago. Quite interesting responses ,I realised there was an expectation that there would be interest from them- and there was a subtle sence of specialness about the awakening experience- ive explored this in depth since and its all ‘ok’ whatever.
And I wanted to ask about sex and marriage and how this is different ( im looking forward to exploring this part)
Thanks, I understand the vids will happen when they happen.

Hello Rieka,

Thanks for your questions! Yeah, I’m churning these videos out at a snail’s pace at the moment due to unavoidable environmental issues. I’m hoping however to start getting a video up each week very shortly, so you should see my answers to your questions in the not too distant future…

I was interested in enlightenment. I read Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha almost a year ago. Now I read the dharmaoverground and it is full of people practicing Actual Freedom, and even Daniel himself is practicing it now. Now I don’t know what to think and am starting to stop caring about enlightenment and practice. Please help. The dharmaoverground just leaves me confused and disappointed now. Where can I turn? Shall I leave Theravada Buddhism? Is Zen effective? (Sigh) I just want it simple now…Though the four path system is appealing.

Hi T,

Actually, there are lots of people interested in insight at the DhO – I’d say, the majority. Daniel’s experiments with AF may be shocking to some, but hey, it’s not as if he’s the main teacher at DhO (though it’s his site). Please, just post something insight-related, and I for one will join in the discussion, and I’m certain that I won’t be the only one.

Then, there’s kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com, a sister site of DhO minus the AF stuff, but with slightly more emphasis on the teacher.

There is the Baptists Head forum at thebaptistshead.co.uk – the emphasis is more on the Western Tradition of Magick, but I’ve gained a lot from participating there.

I happen to think that it’s not that important to pick the “right” tradition, as long as you’re confident that it can take you where you want to go. (That’s the quality of “saddha”/faith in Theravada terms) Good friends can be found in any tradition, they don’t have to share every bit of dogma with you. And in the end, you have to do it yourself anyway, there’s no-one to do it for you.

Looking forward to your contributions on DhO or elsewhere,

Cheers!
Florian

I brought myself a long way in the past year. i went from not having any thought that maybe the person i believed myself to be didnt exist, to believing whole-heartedly that that there is no person here and there never was. i feel as though i have come to a wall, one that i cannot seem to get over. i have gained a deep understanding of who i am not but it comes and goes with my lack of intense concentration. its frustrating.

i can honestly say i had never even heard of majick before i stumbled upon this site.
my questions are-
1) did the practice of majick lead directly to your final realization of self?
2) if so, how long had you used these practices?
3) do have recomendations for reading material to help bring about realization?

thanks for you time
Bill

lila, your brilliance outshines and transcends the mundane. don’t expect any one to understand you here. Your practice is rooted in the reality of your day to day encounter with the world. It is very vibrant and not bounded by theory or definition.

as you say…”when you fall through that crack where sense cannot save you, and you find your world view expanding beyond reason, incorporating without seperating, including without feeling the need to detach …

i have found the surrender to what i can no longer understand on a mental level, quite liberating ….”

Beautiful!

‘lila, your brilliance outshines and transcends the mundane. don’t expect any one to understand you here.’

Apart from you, eh minimalist?

Alan, I was looking forward to YOU possibly comprehending lila’s statement : ) ya know, I thought you might be more expansive in your view…quess not..lol!