Every approach to truth realization has it’s shadow sides. It’s quite possible to get awakened without the use of maps and models. However, I’ve come to understand by both my experience and the sincere testimony of others that having clear, accurate maps is more often an aid than a hindrance to spiritual practice.

You’re right in suggesting that expounding on the details of the various stages of awakening could cause practitioners to become really good imposters of the real thing, even to the point of fooling themselves. On the other hand, having clear maps and models can guide one out of the delusion that they’re already “done” by giving them good solid standards from which they and their teachers/friends can judge against their direct experience.

Since I think that learning meditation is just like learning any other skill, it makes sense to have clear standards already spelled out, much like a curriculum. Step-by-step instructions have always proven useful in the pursuit of developing any skill or proficiency at any task. How is getting enlightened any different?

Exactly! It’s easy to get snagged in the 3rd stage by buying in to the idea that Emptiness is stable and fixed (i.e. a “refuge” or “ground”). But as my older, wiser, Zen buddy once said to me, “There is really no place to put your feet!”

Just a quick comment from a fellow Sutta-monger: Check out the teaching on the “Bases of Power”, iddhipada.

Cheers,
Florian

@Gabe and Stuart: I’m not concerned if what I say coincides with Buddhist scripture or any other scripture. I write from experience. A thorough record of this experience (and Alan’s too) is available on our website The Baptist’s Head. If you’re as interested in my experiences as you say you are, then no doubt you’ll take the time to read about them.

My progress in this field was significantly aided by teachers who provided clear and detailed models of the progress of enlightenment. So when people tell me models don’t help or that they cause harm, it contradicts my experience and also makes me wonder why those same people persist in coming to this website, when it obviously causes them nothing but annoyance.

I’d advise such people not to spend too much time composing this kind of reply to articles on this site, because I find such arguments so tedious that I can’t promise to read or publish them. I have carefully considered such arguments in the past but I have rejected them because my experience has contradicted them. On what basis would these nay-sayers have me accept their arguments, if not personal experience?

In most life situations, models aren’t necessary. Say you want to know if the water in your shower is too hot or cold, before you step into it. You stick your hand in the water, and you experience for yourself its temperature. No model required.

So why make or hold a model?

If you asked a stock investor why he makes models, he’d say something like this. He hopes that the model will provide a decent approximation of the future up/down movements of stocks. By using these predictions, he hopes to make money.

That makes sense for the stock-picker. But why would one look for a model in other life situations, such as a meditation practice? It’s perfectly possible for meditation to be like sticking your hand in the shower: simply an examination of experience. Why make a model?

Stuart
http://stuart-randomthoughts.blogspot.com/

Presumably your argument doesn’t apply to those people who are neither delusional nor enlightened, then – which is the majority of people.

I beg to differ.

A delusion, in everyday language, is a fixed belief that is either false, fanciful, or derived from deception.

From what I can tell Buddha taught that all samsaric beings are delusional. All beings share a desire for happiness, but most are deluded about how to manifest it, and this is the reason why they choose to create suffering.

If someone is delusional there’s not much you or I can say to change that!

I find this runs contrary to the teachings of the Buddha. If I understand it correctly the Buddha described his dharma in many sutta specifically as the path that leads to the abandonment of passion, aversion, and delusion. The specific type of delusion that I was referencing is the belief that one has already attained release when they have not. This particular delusion is not special and can be dismantled using Buddha’s path just like any other.

“But is there, my friend, a path, is there a way to the abandoning of that passion, aversion, & delusion?”

“Yes, my friend, there is a path, there is a way to the abandoning of that passion, aversion, & delusion.”

“And what is that path, my friend, what is that way to the abandoning of that passion, aversion, & delusion?”

“Just this noble eightfold path: right view, right resolve, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration. This is the path, this is the way to the abandoning of that passion, aversion, & delusion.”

- AN 3.71 Channa Sutta: To Channa the Wanderer

I write about models of attainment and progress because it may help serious practitioners realise where they’re at and avoid getting stuck.

I understand that your intention is pure. What I’m suggesting is that focusing on models of attainment may hinder serious practitioners and get them stuck. Since this is what I believe I’m trying to be of assistance by bringing about an open discussion of the subject. I’m not saying that I know my suggestion is the correct one instead I’m hoping to explore the issue with you to figure out why you believe these models are particularly useful. If that belief is based on personal experience that would be interesting to hear about, if you base the belief on some part of the buddha’s teaching that would be very interesting to hear about also. I sincerely hope you interpret this as constructive feedback and not as a personal attack.

Can you explain why “knowing where you’re at” is particularly useful in the practice ? At the risk of sounding facetious I don’t recall “right estimation of personal attainment” as being part of the Buddha’s path. If it is useful to help students avoid getting stuck as you suggest then don’t you think the Buddha would have taught it as part of the path ? If you interpret it as falling under a particular part of the path then could you please explain which ?

If I understand the teachings correctly the task at hand is to develop and maintain skillful qualities in the mind (right view, right mindfulness, right concentration) and this task is the same no matter where you are at. Therefor in theory estimating where you are at is at best not necessary and at worst confusing for people.

Phew… I think that’s enough self-justification for one day…

If you do not wish to discuss this any further I’ll understand this is your blog not mine.

@Dan, I agree that meditation doesn’t have to be unpleasant (all the time). I forget who said it: You’re lucky if you enjoy meditation, if you feel the benefits of it immediately; But whether or not you enjoy it, keep doing it.

Whether it’s enjoyable or not may be less of an issue, after you’ve been practicing for a while.

Why focus on enumerating levels of attainment ? Why focus on charting progress? … Delusional people who want to believe they are already enlightened may read such a thing and use it as an excuse to relax their discipline. People who are actually enlightened will know for sure and will not need to read some blog post to affirm it.

Presumably your argument doesn’t apply to those people who are neither delusional nor enlightened, then – which is the majority of people. If someone is delusional there’s not much you or I can say to change that!

I don’t say anywhere in the article that anyone ‘outgrows’ meditation, but that the difference between meditation and non-meditation is eventually undone. (Not the same.) And the part about dropping one’s usual practice to see what happens when it is dropped is, of course, still a practice!

I write about models of attainment and progress because it may help serious practitioners realise where they’re at and avoid getting stuck.

Phew… I think that’s enough self-justification for one day…